911homepage                airgames homepage             911home-mirror                    The lost "terror drill"? Pt.11

911 Holes in RADAR coverage

  591UA was it flight 93, 175 or both

 Get the tape Treason, Inc. by Craig Hill of Vermont.
hillsenatenow.org

  It has interviews with military that say about 77 that "it was reported a
plane had crashed" in the Ky/Oh wooded area on 911.  Wonder if 77 got shot
down?  Some theorize it landed in WV, at Yeager (doubt that).

 I've put in the ref to the Washington Post article that someone sent
round before.
I think this is enough to explain about radar holes for now. Please
publish wherever.
washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node&contentId=A32597-2001Nov2

 > BTS database once again folks....
>
> Ive got to wonder who has the ability to change the BTS data.
> The BTS is a government database of flight times, arrivals, departures,
> cancellations, etc...
> september 11th researchers have previously noted that flight 11 and 77 were
> non-existant in the BTS for Sept 11th.
> from my understanding, the carriers are responsible for giving the data
> to the FAA, then it is entered into the database.
> BUT, most planes have ACARS that can automatically send the data.
> I dont know if this still goes to the carrier first, or if it goes
> straight to the FAA/BTS ?
>
> I would sure love to get to the bottom of this. there are a TON of false
> entreis, missing entries JUST PRIOR to the events on sept 11th.
> Like how flight 93 was in 2 places at one time on september 10th
> portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/300590.shtml
>
>
> The same thing happened to this plane on September 10th 2001.
> It was in 2 places at once according to the BTS.

  Did the Airlines know something in advance ?
> sept10-01.brad.com/

Operation 9-11: Rendezvous Points
the-movement.com/air%20operation/Journey.htm

Whoever was ultimately in control of the plane, Flight 93 made a number of odd maneuvers in midair before it finally plunged to Earth. "Halfway through its trip, around Weston, W.Va., it took some sharp turns, all within about two or three minutes," said Jeff Krawczyk, chief executive of Flight Explorer, a software firm that uses Federal Aviation Administration data to track flights.

"It was going west, then took a turn to the north, and then went west again," Krawczyk said. Then the plane headed toward Kentucky and took a sharp turn south toward Washington, and around that time the FAA center in Cleveland lost contact with the flight, apparently because someone aboard had turned off its transponder, he said.

Brad Clemenson, a spokesman for Murtha, said the doomed aircraft apparently made at least two other sharp turns during its last minutes -- swerves that are detectable in Flight Explorer's computerized reconstruction of the jet's path.
post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetnat3p3.asp

The Newark-to-San Francisco flight reportedly diverted its route near Pittsburgh and ignored calls from Pittsburgh International Airport controllers. Allegheny County Emergency Management Coordinator Bob Full said that Pittsburgh International Airport officials had knowledge of the plane headed for Pittsburgh and that it was taking precautionary action when the plane diverted its course. The plane actually reached the Cleveland area before turning around.
ABC News reported that a request to change the flight plan to Washington, D.C. was asked for by someone on the plane.

thepittsburghchannel.com/news/956356/detail.html

One air traffic controller - with the help of an assistant - monitored the flight patterns of the two jets that toppled the World Trade Center, the employee said. He directed American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 - both Boeing 767 jets that had Boston to Los Angeles routes, the employee said.

The same controller handled Egypt Air Flight 990 when it crashed off the coast of Massachusetts in 1999, the employee said. Hijackers gained control of American Airlines Flight 11 around Gardner, Mass., the employee said. "American was just flying around, doing what it wanted," the employee said of the jet's approach to New York.

investigate911.com/flight93.htm

Matthew L. Wald, who wrote about the destroyed FAA tapes from 9/11, already noticed also on Sept13th, 2001, in the NY Times (* Thanks to 9/11 Researcher WoodyBox ) the following interesting remarks about "flight11":
"...at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center in Ronkonkoma, which handles long-distance traffic around the New York metropolitan area, the first inkling of a hijacking that most controllers had was when a supervisor came to the cafeteria and asked if he could change the television channel to CNN.
"Our TV's are always tuned to ESPN," one controller said.
The television screen showed one tower of the World Trade Center with a hole in it.
"We didn't know what kind, what airplane. There were rumors it was a 737," the controller said. "We said, `No way, it would be a much bigger hole.' We were watching, and we saw the second one go in."
According to the official version (Newsday/September 10th 2001), "the hijackers had turned off the transponder when they took control of the cockpit. The transponder normally gives the airline and flight number, the type of plane and altitude. Without it, no one could be sure where American 11 was - or the identity of the plane headed south.

Unfortunately, the evidence about "Flight 11" was "cut into small pieces, a few months later by "manager" Kevin Delaney.

Matthew L. Wald seems to be specialised in the internal matters of the FAA.
His bio also describes him as "a Washington correspondent of The Times who writes frequently on nuclear power."

More from Wald...
Another problem was that military commanders were never fully able to track all hijacked jetliners. The third flight - the one that hit the Pentagon - left NORAD's radar system shortly before it crossed the southern tip of Ohio.

That left the military relying on the FAA, which has no authority to direct military defense.

Complicating matters: Until the September 11 attacks, the military relied on the FAA to ask for help before the Defense Department took action in a potential hijacking. The civilian agency, initially, was late calling key events:

Eleven minutes after American Airlines Flight 11 crashed into the trade center, the FAA formally notified the military the airplane had crashed. Until then, the responding fighter jets did not know the plane had crashed.

It took three minutes after United Airlines Flight 175 crashed into the trade center for the FAA to report it had been hijacked. It took an additional six minutes for the FAA to formally report the plane had crashed.

tinyurl.com/545us

flight 77

In the area of Ohio, at least one "hijacked plane" plane had abruptly turned around over Ohio and was flying back toward Washington, DC.
Flight 93 was officially being hijacked at approximately 9:35am somewhere near Cleveland.

Flight 77 was officially hijacked between 8:50 and 8:55 AM in Ohio, too,
but dropped from the radar.
According to the official story, Flight 77 flew due West all the way to Ohio passing the West Virginia border.
It made then a full turn and flew more than 300 miles back to Washington, D.C
Flight 93 was the only jetliner, still flying with its IFF transponder off had just made a 180-degree turn over southern Ohio and had been headed for Washington D.C. for 12 minutes. It was still 34 minutes before the Pentagon was hit.

Interestingly, in the USA Today version of The Official Truth, Flight 77 does not cross into Ohio, as it does in the Time and Newsweek versions of The Official Truth.

Sec. of Transportation Norman Mineta said it happened as flight 77 was coming in. At close to 09:30.

Now the comission says it happened at 10:10 to 10:18. And the plane was flight 93. But at that point flight 93 had allready crashed... Well, the commission says the reason they were still worried, even if flight 93 had allready crashed, is because they were relying on a display that showed the projected path, and were not aware that the plane had allready crashed. ( See quote at the end of message. )

Here is a part of Norman Minetas testimony. It is clear, reading the whole link, that he is not mixing things up:

"Sec. of Transportation Norman Mineta before the 911 Commission on May 23, 2003 :

Sec. Mineta: ..during the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, “The plane is 50 miles out.” “The plane is 30 miles out.” And when it got down to “the plane is 10 miles out,” the young man also said to the Vice President, “Do the orders still stand?” And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, “Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?” Well at the time, I didn’t know what all of that meant. And ...

(Now, it is not clear here what orders he was talking about that still stood, was it too shoot down, or not to?)

Lee Hamilton, Vice Chair
The flight you are referring to is the ..

Secretary Mineta
..flight that came into the Pentagon.(...) And then, later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to D.C. Those planes were still about ten minutes away. And so, then at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought: Oh my God, did we shoot it down? And then we had to, with the Vice President, go to the Pentagon to check that out.

<...>

Secretary Mineta: I arrived at the PEOC at about 9:20 A.M. and the President was in Florida and I believe he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went on between the Vice President and the President and the staff that the President had with him.

Tim Roemer, Commissioner: So when you arrived at 9:20, how much longer was it before you overheard the conversation between the young man and the Vice President, saying: Does the order still stand?

Secretary Mineta: Probably about five or six minutes.

Tim Roemer, Commissioner
So about 9:25 or 9:26.

"At 10:02,the communicators in the shelter began receiving reports from the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft —presumably hijacked —heading toward Washington.That aircraft was United 93.The Secret Service was getting this information directly from the FAA.The FAA may have been tracking the progress of United 93 on a display that showed its projected path to Washington,not its actual radar return.Thus,the Secret Service was relying on projections and was not aware the plane was already down in Pennsylvania.217 At some time between 10:10 and 10:15,a military aide told the Vice President and others that the aircraft was 80 miles out.Vice President Cheney was asked for authority to engage the aircraft.218 His reaction was described by Scooter Libby as quick and decisive,“in about the time it takes a batter to decide to swing.”The Vice President authorized fighter aircraft to engage the inbound plane.He told us he based this authorization on his earlier conversation with the President.The military aide returned a few minutes later,probably between 10:12 and 10:18,and said the aircraft was 60 miles out.He again asked for authorization to engage.The Vice President again said yes."
vivisimo.com/search?input-form=simple&query=between+10%3A10&v%3Asources=911&v%3Aproject=911&x=45&y=15

flight 93...

at 9:36 a.m. At 9:46 a.m., the FAA command center updated FAA headquarters that United flight 93 was '29 minutes out of Washington, D.C.' Three minutes later, [the commission's] document records this following conversation between the command center and FAA headquarters:
"Command center: 'Uh, do we want to, uh, think about scrambling aircraft?'
"FAA headquarters: 'Oh God, I don't know.'
"Command center: 'Uh, that's a decision somebody's going to have to make probably in the next 10 minutes.'
"FAA headquarters: 'Uh, yeah, you know, everybody just left the room.' "
www.villagevoice.com/issues/0431/mondo3.php

post-gazette.com/nation/20020615shanksville6.asp

Rick Kettell, manager of the Cleveland Center, briefly talked about the day and said that although Flight 93's transponder, a beacon to track the aircraft, was shut off after the hijacking over Ohio occurred, the signal sporadically came back. He said that indicated the flight crew was trying to keep communicating with controllers.

A signal exhibiting the seismic signature characteristic of a passing sonic boom was recorded at 9:22 A.M. local time by an earthquake monitoring station in southern Pennsylvania. This station is just 60 miles from the abandoned stripmine in Somerset County where the Boeing 757-200 hit the earth at 10:06.

Seismographs of the sonic boom, recorded at approximately 9:22 AM local time on 9/11

The presence of this particular sonic boom at 9:22 A.M. refutes the story we have been told of the military's response to 9/11.

The North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD, issued a press release one week after the attacks. The timeline told of Air National Guard fighter jets taking off from bases in Massachusetts and Virginia at 8:46 A.M. and 9:30 A.M., respectively. The first jets, two F-15's from Otis Air National Guard Base, responded to an 8:40 A.M. scramble order and screamed towards New York City six minutes later. The second group, F-16's from Langley AFB, responded to a 9:24 A.M. order and again were en route to their target in six minutes, this time pointing towards Washington D.C. and the threatened Pentagon.

The problem with this story is that neither group of fighters could have made the sonic boom recorded in Pennsylvania by 9:22.

www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/911_warplanes.htm

 xxx said something about Mode S and remote control transponders.
There is something called CRAF.

www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=173
(we might need a little Lexis here to find out what AA and UA
planes were CRAF in 2001.)
Basically, civilian planes are offered up to the military when needed. Each
big airline has a list of CRAF aircraft. I am not sure who picks or how
these planes are picked, but there is a list of them.

 

>
> Take a look at this web site, which I came across in my research about
> transponders:
>
> radomes.org/museum/scripts/satellite.cgi
>
> It has links to sat photo images and topographic maps -- it could
> provide some good supporting material for your radar article.
>
> Regarding the transponders. Its simple for the pilot to turn it off. My
> two main questions are: 1) If transponders can be controlled through the
> Home Run / Cyclops system remotely; and 2) What data is transmitted in
> Mode S. Regarding point 1: In other words, can they be turned and/or
> settings changed remotely -- or does it require human intervention. I've
> got the maintenance schematics -- and I have someone that can look at
> this. Regarding point 2: When the planes were switched and for those
> that still had their transponders operating (I think this applies to
> flight 175) what info was sent by the Mode S function? I understand it
> has a unique aircraft ID capability.
>
> Flight 77 and Autopilot
>
> Here is a post about the autopilot on flight 77. This post raises some
> interesting questions.

> letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?p=42279

>
> The C-130
>
> I wrote a long post about that C-130 that saw both flight 77 and flight
> 93 crash. I have some updates to add to it (will be done in a few days),
> but here are the links to my posts:
>
> letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?p=29672
> letsroll911.org/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?p=37138
>
> I found in the 9/11 Commission Report a SECOND C-130 that was asked to
> look for flight 77 or 93 (can't remember which now). Another
> coincidence.
>
>
> Use anything you like in your work. Some credit is appreciated since it
> helps me with developing contacts.
>
> All the best,
> xxx
>
> ==========
>
> here just an FYI from a DU post.
> I know John Doe was in the posting, so it may not be new info to most of
> you
>
> Quote: "8:46 a.m. - New York flight controller Dave Bottoglia is in
> charge of monitoring both Flights 11 and 175. He's just watched Flight
> 11's radar blip disappear over New York City, but doesn't yet realize
> the plane has crashed. “Within seconds” of losing Flight 11's blip, he
> realizes that Flight 175 is also missing. He has another controller take
> over all his other planes so he can focus on finding Flight 175. He
> tries contacting the planes several times unsuccessfully. Curt
> Applegate, sitting at the radar screen next to Bottoglia, sees a blip
> that might be the missing Flight 11. In fact, it's the missing Flight
> 175. Right as Bottoglia notices it, its transponder signal turns back
> on, but at a different signal than before (see (8:46 a.m.)). MSNBC
> reports, “There is no longer any question in Bottoglia's mind that he's
> looking at a second hijacked airliner.” He then notices it turn east and
> start descending. He keeps an eye on it and sees it head right at Delta
> Flight 2315. He recalls saying to the Delta flight, “Traffic, 2:00, 10
> miles. I think he's been hijacked. I don't know his intentions. Take any
> evasive action necessary.” Flight 2315 takes evasive action, missing
> Flight 175 by less than 200 feet. {MSNBC, 9/11/02 (B)} However, there is
> no claim that NORAD is notified about the hijacking at this time.
> According to a NORAD timeline, NORAD is notified by Boston flight
> control three minutes earlier (see 8:43 a.m.). The 9/11 Commission seems
> to completely ignore this account from Bottoglia, and has him notice the
> transponder change at 8:51, instead of as it is happening, as he claims
> (see 8:51-8:53 a.m.)
>
> Flight 175 stops transmitting its transponder signal. It is 50 miles
> north of New York City, heading toward Baltimore. {8:46:18, Guardian,
> 10/17/01, “about the same time” as Flight 11 crash, Newsday, 9/10/02,
> 8:47, 9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04} However, the transponder is
> turned off for only about 30 seconds, then changed to a signal that is
> not designated for any plane on that day. {Newsday, 9/10/02} This
> “allow(s) controllers to track the intruder easily, though they couldn't
> identify it.” {Washington Post 9/17/01}" - CooperativeResearch.org

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